Cruise Ship Killer
Cruise Ship Killer (CSK) is a darkly comedic, deeply skeptical podcast that investigates deaths, disappearances, and bizarre incidents aboard cruise ships.
Cruise Ship Killer
EP7: Anna Kepner Case Update & Why One-Sided Cruise Contracts Are Unacceptable
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We trade cruise headlines and the fine print that quietly shape what happens after a fall, a fight, or a disappearance at sea. Along the way, we update the Anna Kepner case with questions around release and liability and the Diana Sanders verdict, in relation to over service and injuries. We discuss the AI-assisted breakdown of Carnival, Norwegian and Royal Caribbean ticket contracts, specifically:
- One-year deadlines
- 30-day complaint windows
- Why venue often means Miami
- Class action waivers and how they block systemic change
- Surprising clauses on smoking and CBD usage
- Luggage seizure
- Wi‑Fi monitoring
We write our own passenger-first rules to prove how unbalanced these agreements really are. Our proposed passenger contract includes refunds, fair venues, real accountability, and a passenger code of conduct.
Do want to learn more about Cruise Line Terminology, alert calls, and fun cruise terminology? Check out our CruiseShipKiller Dictionary!
Welcome Aboard And The Premise
Speaker 2Cruise ships promise relaxation, luxury, and absolutely nothing going wrong. But every year people disappear, accidents happen, and the official explanation somehow never gets simpler. This is Cruise Ship Killer, a podcast where we examine real cruise ship deaths, disappearances and mishaps, with skepticism, dark humor, and zero interest in becoming maritime detectives. We're not here to accuse. We're here to ask, does any of this actually make sense? Welcome aboard.
SpeakerHello, welcome to Cruise Chip Killer. I'm Kathy.
Speaker 2And I'm Geoff. Hi, Kathy.
SpeakerHi, Geoff. It is time for episode seven. I'm really missing the beer dome this week. We're back in the pub.
Speaker 2You know, had I known this was episode seven, we should have just held the lucky seven for the beer dome.
SpeakerThat's true.
Speaker 2Didn't even think of that. We should I'm glad you're keeping count. I'm not keeping count. That's my problem. All right.
SpeakerOh.
Speaker 2Oh well. Lucky seven it is.
SpeakerIt is.
Boat Vs Ship And Skipper Rule
SpeakerAll right. So last podcast we talked about how people probably have a drinking game over the use of our word boat a lot. And then we kind of asked, well, what's the difference between a boat and a ship?
Speaker 2You just said it twice. Are we playing right now? No, we're not playing right now. Okay, so when we start. I'm just giving the definition.
SpeakerYeah. Uh so a boat is a smaller recreational watercraft that cannot carry another boat. A ship is a long distance or commercial vessel exceeding 100 to 200 feet in length and weighing over 500 gross tons. It's large enough to carry other boats like lifeboats and crosses an ocean. And there is a thing called a skipper rule. I'm trying to save you from getting kicked off the uh bridge tour when you go on the Star Trek cruise here. So listen to this carefully.
Speaker 1Okay.
SpeakerA boat captain does not mind being called a ship captain, but a ship captain would take offense to being called a boat captain.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's like a demotion.
SpeakerYeah. So you you gotta get control of that before you and Dave go on the Star Trek cruise and you're up there on the bridge.
Speaker 2So so neither of us can say, you got a nice boat, boat captain. That's correct. That's correct. Okay, we can't do that. No noted.
SpeakerOkay, so that that's the answer to that.
Anna Keppner Case Update
Speaker 2All right.
SpeakerUm, and then I'm gonna give an update on the Anna Keppner case.
Speaker 2I can can I pause you on the boat thing though? Sure. So if you're CSK, you have to be on a boat that can't carry a boat. Right? If you're gonna be, if you're really gonna, or if you really want the ideal scenario. Pick a boat or that's not a that can't carry a boat, therefore it's not a ship.
SpeakerJeff, you've you've just tanked our whole show. Okay, if that's the case. Okay. We're saying he's on a ship.
Speaker 2Well, I know, so I'm saying, well, I'm not saying he's very smart, or she. I don't know why we keep saying he. We just assume it's a he.
SpeakerTrue, it could be a woman also.
Speaker 2A very short woman, too. Yeah. Go go ahead. Anyway, sorry.
SpeakerAll right. So the Anna Keppner update, her brother, her stepbrother, who's now named Timothy Hudson, is being charged as an adult and pleading not guilty and has chosen to remain silent. He's been charged with first degree murder and aggravated sexual abuse. And they're saying it's premeditated murder because it takes a long time to strangle somebody. So he could have stopped at any time, but he just kept going. And I find it um strange that he's still not behind bars and he's still living at his uncle's house, and he's actually going out and helping his dad do jobs. So he's just out there doing jobs. Does he have an ankle monitor? He does have an ankle monitor.
Speaker 2Yeah, he's gotta be.
SpeakerHe does. Um the defense says he poses no public threat and and is wearing an ankle monitor. The prosecution is trying to revoke his pretrial release, arguing he is a danger to the community. What do you think? I think yes. I think so too.
Speaker 2How often do you think people get to go home after something like that?
SpeakerI've never heard of someone going home, especially now that he's being charged as an adult.
Speaker 2Right. It's got to be a super, super low percentage.
SpeakerSo there was some talk um on another crime podcast about, you know, why why the change to the adult system, that there was no hearing to determine if moving him to the adult system was even in his best interest. Um and then the guess was they thought the probability that he's going to be tried as an adult was gonna happen anyway, so they're just gonna move move there on their own, I guess. And so I thought, well, what is is there an upside to being charged as an adult? You get a right to a jury trial, you get some vocational training, and you get a set finite sentencing.
Speaker 2So you okay, I'm not a lawyer. Translation meaning he's got more options going the adult route?
SpeakerI think no, because if you're a juvenile, you could get out sooner.
Speaker 2Okay. All right, so why wouldn't you go that route?
SpeakerI think they're saying because they're thinking they're gonna charge him as an adult no matter what, so they're just gonna.
Speaker 2Oh, so oh, oh, so basically this is a battle not worth fighting. That's what you're saying. That's what the That they just said, yeah, we're not gonna fight this battle. That's what we're gonna lose it anyway.
SpeakerThat's what the idea is. Although I was still thinking, well, I I haven't heard, you know, by reason of insanity or anything. It's just not guilty.
Speaker 2No, yeah.
SpeakerSo Okay. Um so there's other allegations now that he was allowed to drink alcohol and that there will now be liability for the cruise line for serving a minor. It's also said he is possibly on ADHD and insomnia meds, and that he may claim that he did not know what he was doing because he was on drugs and alcohol, and he's saying, you know, he blacked out and doesn't remember.
Speaker 2This is perfect for what I'm talking about when we get to the contracts, though. This is fun. All right. Yeah, no, this is all legit. I have I have something to say right now, but I'll spoil it. Okay. All right.
SpeakerSo that's the update there on the brother.
Speaker 2Interesting.
SpeakerAnd this second update really uh is gonna open up a whole can of worms, a new can of worms on the drink package.
Drink Packages And Overserving Lawsuit
SpeakerUm there is a nurse from Sacramento, Diana Sanders. She's 45. She just got awarded $300,000 in a lawsuit. She was served 14 to 15 shots at tequila in under nine hours on the Carnival Radiance on January 5th, 2024. She blacked out, fell down some stairs into a crew-only area, suffered a concussion and a potential traumatic brain injury. A Miami federal jury found Carnival 60% responsible for her fall, citing the all-inclusive drink package that incentivized over service. Carnival has camera footage of the whole fall and is refusing to show the camera footage. And so there's a lot of active lawsuits right now in relation to overboards and over-service. And the fact that this lady just won a lawsuit and got the $300,000, just so she didn't go overboard. She just, you know, fell down some stairs and had some injuries. I think that's just gonna open up a whole new can of worms for some new lawsuits and another reason to get rid of the all-inclusive drink packages.
Speaker 2Yeah. I think you're right.
SpeakerI think we might be all going the virgin. The virgin way.
Speaker 2But you might be right. I don't
AI Reads Three Passenger Contracts
Speaker 2know. I the the last show we talked about me leveraging AI to help me understand some of these contracts, right? So I took three um passenger contracts, the ticket contracts, right? The stuff that you're gonna not even pay attention to because you're already on vacation head as you got your ticket in your hand, right? You're you're just gonna move forward. And so so actually the sponsors of this show are all of you that are paying higher electric bills because I had to use AI to help me understand this information. So the energy cost alone probably cost a ton just to get these answers. But it's really interesting. So I compared Carnival, um, Norwegian, and Royal contracts. What would you get who who do you think these contracts really favor?
SpeakerThe cruise ships. Like by how much I imagine they're trying to just write it all as, you know, every you know, like when you go skydiving or something, like I'm signing a waiver of my life away, and they're not responsible for anything, pretty much.
Speaker 2Absolutely.
SpeakerIs it true?
Speaker 2Oh, absolutely. They are gonna they are protecting themselves uh totally, even on excursions. So um here's so let's like the the lady with the $300,000 thing, right? And you said it's 60% they awarded.
SpeakerThe ship is 60% responsible responsible, she's 40% responsible.
Speaker 2Right. Because she's responsible for her behavior, right? Her conduct, because she has a in in the in the contract, there's a code of conduct that they gotta follow you gotta follow, right? Um and then their responsibility is next to nothing. You know, they you don't if you're injured, you have uh you have for all of these cruise lines, it's most of the contracts pretty much the same. There's subtle differences. Carnival's really a little bit more explicit in some of the areas, but for injuries, you got one year to file. One year, right. I and I guess this is kind of a standard maritime uh time frame, from what I understand.
SpeakerYou also have one year to file if you go overboard, right? If someone goes overboard in their filing, it's the same as if you get injured?
Speaker 2I believe so. Okay, I believe so. That I that I don't know. But a non-injury. So let's just say, oh gosh, uh give me a non-injury thing you might complain about that you might want to be compensated for. I you have 30 days. 30 days, that's all you got. So most people aren't gonna react in 30 days. So it's it's in the cruise ship's interest. So anything that goes south, you know, you can you've got 30 days.
SpeakerHow long, like how long are the contracts? How many pages?
Speaker 2Uh that's a good question. I don't know the answer to that. Because we Because I suppose it depends on how that's coming to you, right? Well, it's on a little card, it might be really long.
SpeakerYou book a cruise and they send you an email, and here's your cruise, um, here's when you need to pay by, here's your contract link. I've never clicked on it. You know, and then you're signing, you know, you're signing. And and it's like, I don't care, I I just want to go on a cruise, and you're signing, you're not really reading it. So we should all be reading these.
Speaker 2Absolutely.
Deadlines Venue And No Class Actions
Speaker 2Absolutely. There's there is um, absolutely, for and not only that, if you live in California, right? The the and you sail on Carnival, Norwegian or Royal, the the the venue of where you're gonna file your suit is gonna be Miami. So whatever happens in Miami, whatever what happens in these district courts in Miami, that's probably what's gonna happen to you. So that's what you're gonna be filing. If you're on a on a on a non-U.S. cruise venue, so if you're like going to Europe or whatever, for for Carnival and Nor Norwegian, oddly enough, still Miami. District court is gonna be, but Royal Caribbean, you're in the British court system. You wouldn't you wouldn't have done that. No, right? Exactly.
SpeakerDoes that does that differ a lot from the Miami court system?
Speaker 2I I don't I don't well, it's British law. I mean, I don't know, right? If I'm a U.S. citizen, I'm thinking, okay, I've been wrong, blah, blah, blah. I go to lawsuit, they're gonna say, well, congratulations, now you're gonna have to file this over in Britain.
SpeakerWhen you do go to Britain to file and you're in the court, are they wearing those wigs they always wear in the movies?
Speaker 2And and I think you have to wear one too. Really? Yeah.
SpeakerWell.
Speaker 2I I think so.
SpeakerWe should pick one of those up on our next cruise.
Speaker 2I we and if they if you don't have to, you can probably request one. They probably have them hanging up.
SpeakerThat's true.
Speaker 2I would think it's like in a class.
SpeakerAmerican would have a wig ready to go.
Speaker 2Absolutely. So when it comes to class action, would you think that they would allow class action suits?
SpeakerYes. No, no.
Speaker 2No, absolutely not. You wave your right to a class action. So if all of us get food poisoning from the buffet and then we huddle at Kruners that night to moan about our food poisoning, and we want to file a class action, we can't do anything. Even if the whole ship says enough is enough. Because class action suits are really designed to help make a systemic change, right?
SpeakerYes.
Speaker 2So to your point on the on the on the drink packages going south, right? If that was a class action suit where a whole bunch of people fell down or whatever, right? Everybody got together and said, This is enough is enough. But no, no, you you once you once you got that ticket, you you've waived that right. So they compress the time that you have to sue. No class action. And they're really not liable for anything. If you took an excursion that you booked through the cruise line, who do you think is liable if something happens to you? Like that lady that got stranded on the beach, or unfortunately died on the beach, or whatever she got on an excursion. Who do you think is gonna be?
SpeakerIs it is it uh it's a ship-sponsored excursion? Not a private excursion?
Speaker 2Yeah, you bought you bought bought one right through Carnival, and this is they were promoting it, you saw it in the brochure, you bought it, and you get injured. Something goes south. What happens?
SpeakerI'm guessing I'm responsible for my own injuries.
Speaker 2They're not gonna be responsible at all.
SpeakerOh wow.
Speaker 2They they completely are not connected to any of that. So they waive liability and all of those things. So yeah, you can't do diddly-do, right? If you if they elect to uh not stop at a port or make a change or whatever, you don't have any rights to anything, you're not gonna get compensated for it.
Contract Shockers And Hidden Powers
Speaker 2So here is I have a list here, some of like the top shockers, right? So I already covered the the you waive your rights for class action, right? So all of them have that, and I'm sure all the other ones do too. If these are the three three biggies, these are three biggies, right? So here's an interesting one. The smell of smoke is legally sufficient evidence to fine you $500 for smoking in your cabin or something? Yes. So let's just say you you get on, you get on your your your get to your cabin, your bags are there, right? You didn't you didn't do anything, right? And all of a sudden somebody says, it smells like smoke. I think I think Jeff's smoking out of his cabin. But it was the guy before I even got on the ship.
unknownRight?
Speaker 2It could have been the last cruise passenger. Who know? Who the heck knows? The sheer fact that there's no direct evidence is that doesn't matter. Some they can just basically say, no, it smells like smoking here.
SpeakerWow.
Speaker 2500 bucks.
SpeakerI can see them lined up at the desk for that one. Right, exactly cursor's desk.
Speaker 2You can you don't have to get caught in the act, it doesn't have to be a witness, it doesn't have to be anything like that. It's basically, nope, boom. You can get you can get nailed or something like that.
Speaker 1Wow.
Speaker 2So this kind of gets to this Anna Keppner thing. So you go on a trip with your family. So if I go on a trip, my and my brother acts like an idiot, right? But he's we're in the same room. We're all hang, we're in the same spame group. One idiot can kick everyone else off the boat. They can just go in and say, nope, you violated the code of conduct, and your whole party is gone. And you're dumped wherever the next dumping zone is, and you're responsible for all the costs. You can't do anything about it.
SpeakerThat is kind of like the one we talked about on the autism cruise, right?
Speaker 2Yes.
SpeakerWhere the family got kicked off.
Speaker 2Yes.
SpeakerOkay.
Speaker 2So this is off my list, but same thing. Parents take their kids on a cruise. Who do you think's responsible for the kids?
SpeakerParents are supposed to.
Speaker 2Exactly. It it is actually written. That's no, absolutely. You are responsible. So if little Eddie, you know, completely destroys Mrs. Jones' fur coat, you're paying for it.
Speaker 1Wow.
Speaker 2You're paying for it. They're gonna Mrs. Jones is gonna come to you and go, you gotta pay for my fur coat. Your little Eddie tore it apart. And they're not gonna be liable for any of it.
SpeakerWow.
Speaker 2Yeah. So so if you're bringing any kids on a cruise and something goes south, it's on you. So, on the Anna Keppner thing, I've heard the argument that, well, the kids got served booze. Someone used a fake ID, right? Fake ID was mentioned. Is that right? Or is that another story I'm talking about, thinking about?
SpeakerNo, that was the family from Dublin.
Speaker 2Okay, okay, but nonetheless, whatever happens here, the parents are have some liability. That's what it boils down to. And it's I apparently it's in the contracts. This is in the agreement. Like, yep, that's what you signed up for.
SpeakerI don't know how to break the news to our five-year-old grandson now that we can't take him on that cruise because if he says something about bad about Sandy again, yeah.
Speaker 2So here's an here's another one for you, I think you'll enjoy. Um you may be disappointed, but I'm not so sure. So CBD gummies that you might pick up at Walgreens for your you know, for your health. Um under Carnival's contract, it covers that. That's a no-no. And then what you can get turned into federal authorities, right? U.S. customs, DEA, whatever, you know, the the dogs will grab you, you're done, right? I've they don't care you got to get the big thing.
SpeakerI've yet to try CBD gummies, but I don't think I'd be trying them on a ship. I'd probably go overboard or something after that.
Speaker 2No, take them before you get on the ship. Right. That's the rule.
SpeakerWhat if they smell gummies like smoke? Does that be a fine? Are those fruit C BD gummies or are those lifesavers?
Speaker 2Now that you now that you said that, I'm sure that'll get included in the carnival thing. One of the things that the AI noticed that I thought was interesting, and mind you, this is AI doing it, so who knows how much it hallucinated, but I don't think it did. I gave it the all the raw information, right? Pretty easy for this thing to to read words and and and do what it does. It actually said that Carnival had some specific things that the others didn't, and actually made the comment that it seems like it was written by lawyers who had been down certain pathways before in lawsuits, and they just wanted to not do that again. I thought that was really interesting. It's kind of odd that the AI went off on its own little opinion of it, looks like this is covering their butt more so than the others. Yeah. I thought that was kind of funny. So on Carnival, hey, if you let's say you uh, oh I don't know, let's say you didn't pay some bill uh that you owe. Maybe maybe you racked up a bill in the sanctuary and and and your your credit card got declined or whatever, right? Nonetheless, you're getting ready to leave that boat and you owe them money.
SpeakerTake your shots, people.
Speaker 2You know, do you know where I'm going with this?
SpeakerYou said boat, we're just taking shots and pausing.
Speaker 2Dang it. That's right. You're okay. You're leaving the ship going.
SpeakerThe ship? Yeah.
Speaker 2Your luggage is now their inventory.
SpeakerOh.
Speaker 2Yes. They're going to seize your luggage.
SpeakerOh.
Speaker 2Because that's money.
unknownRight?
Speaker 2And they'll sell it at public auction to get their thousand bucks back. So that's that's a real clause.
SpeakerWow.
Speaker 2Yes, so don't owe anything because you might not be carrying all your bags home. Pack your underwear in another bag and then give them the biggest bag, because that's going to be the high dollar one, right?
SpeakerI've heard of those stores from my hairdresser. She likes, you know, when people lose luggage at the airport or whatever, I think the store is in Texas, maybe. And they sell everybody's stuff, and she goes there and and shops for bargains. So now they're doing it with your crew. There's a cruise store then, probably somewhere. Right? Just a whole hangar. I think there is. You can go buy cruise stuff from the people who had their luggage confiscated.
Speaker 2And you gotta wonder, if is it for this reason they owed money?
SpeakerI did I never heard of it. But that's it.
Speaker 2Hey, yeah, that's your collateral, right? So here's something else that I thought was really interesting. So the cruise line can use your face in their marketing forever without asking.
SpeakerOh man.
Speaker 2So all three contracts include a use of likeness clause. So walking near a ship photographer counts as consent. There is no opt-out. So all of you on the all-inclusive drink package, when they're really, you know, sending out those promotion pictures of how fun it is. Your puts could be on that.
SpeakerI'm, you know, I'm not that photogenic, so they probably wouldn't use mine. But I would be like, can I just use some kind of app on there to tidy my four chins up before you post that on the next brochure?
Speaker 2You're signing, you're signing all this away, right? You right right when you got that ticket, you're you already you already gave up your face.
SpeakerI would not like that at all.
Speaker 2Well, there you go. So here's another one. Carnival's got this one. This was this one, this one was actually a little bit more alarming to me. Do you get the internet package?
SpeakerYes.
Speaker 2Yeah. And when you go on a cruise, you're on vacation head, right?
SpeakerYes. Yeah.
Speaker 2Okay. Carnival monitors everything you do on the internet.
SpeakerWow.
Speaker 2And can disclose it. Yeah, right? So if I'm on a cruise with you and you fall over the balcony, they're gonna go through that web search, right? And see if Jeff was looking like, how do I get Kathy tossed over the ship? Right? That's fair game. The FBI doesn't even need to ask for it. The crew just says, here it is. Here's what he was doing online.
SpeakerI guess we're not getting the internet package anymore.
Speaker 2Yeah. So the the contract Ricardo explicitly states that use of onboard wireless is at the guest's risk and that the carrier may monitor, record, and disclose transmissions.
SpeakerWow.
Speaker 2Yeah. So you're paying $30 a day for surveilled 2009 speed internet. How about that? Something to think about.
SpeakerSo some spouse is on there getting life insurance policy on day one, and then day five, suddenly they lose their spouse overboard, probably.
unknownYeah.
Speaker 2So so those those are the highlights of of this contract stuff. It basically everything is in their favor. So one of the things that the last up the last episode I had said, I said, well, we're gonna have some fun with it. We're gonna create our our passenger version of the contract. Okay.
SpeakerSo before you go there though, given given given that given that you owe money for your kid. I do not. Given that everything is in their favor, how does how does anyone get to file a lawsuit at all then?
Speaker 2So here's what here here's another thing. The you go to the ship's doctor, and I don't know, he does something all screwy, right? And you're now messed up even more, right? So you file suit, you're like, the heck. Oh no. You waved, you waived that the the cruise ship is not liable there either. Because they contract with somebody else. So that medical team is not even part of the cruise line.
Speaker 1That's pretty shifty.
Speaker 2Right. So you can't do anything. So and you and and your behavior, so it's kind of obvious when you're acting like a jerk, right? And but it's very subjective. They have they they they basically under the guise of safety and blah blah blah blah blah, right? Can do it really whatever they want and pass judgment on whether you're acting like an idiot or a danger to others or whatever. So if you're, I don't know, if you're just kind of a goofy person, right? They may think you're just a drunk, but they can confine you to your room. And they can do that. You can't say, you can't say no. You get you can't, you sign away that they are in charge. So when a crew member asks you to do something, they're not asking you. They're ordering you. It's a different thing. And I think this falls, I if I remember, I think this falls under maritime law. This is kind of just the way to govern a ship, right? It's like, hey, look, we're on this floating little sea city, right? And we're not gonna tolerate anything. And and and it's up to them to determine what needs to happen.
SpeakerDid AI scour the contract for if you get killed by a serial killer on the ship, that they're also not responsible? Actually. Even if it's a crew member?
Speaker 2Actually, actually, it did say something along those lines. Not basically your death is not their fault because being on a ship is inherently risky. Right? Which is true. You're on your balcony, suddenly we hit a rogue wave and you go flying off.
SpeakerI have to tell you I mean, right?
Speaker 2I mean who who do you blame?
SpeakerA couple of my friends who've never cruised, who've listened to our podcast, say they're not going now.
Speaker 2Yeah, but that's crazy, right? I mean, you know, you if you drive up a mountain or you go on a hike or anything can happen. You fall in your in your kitchen. I don't know, put it in perspective, right?
A Passenger Contract That Fights Back
Speaker 2All right, so let me let me let me share. So the passenger cruise contract. Okay. This is this is written in our favor. Okay, cool. That's the intent, right? So, so um, I'll just read some of it. So here's the deal: we paid for a specific cruise to specific places on specific dates, because mind you, they can do whatever they want, right? They can skip a port, whatever, and not reimburse you. But for us, that's the deal, right? The brochure, the website, the travel agent who is very enthusiastic about Azure Waters, the emails with the countdown timer, all of it counts. You said it, we bought it. I like that. We're holding them to that, right? Port changes if you cancel port. Well, we were genuinely excited about you owe us something. I think that's legit.
SpeakerYes.
Speaker 2Right? Not a future cruise credit, no. Actual money. That's in this, that's in our contract then the actual money back. Or at a minimum, a very good open bar for the day. Because we're supposed to be in Cosmo and we weren't, so we're gonna just float in the Gulf at a bar, right? So that's that's in the contract. So um $150 onboard credit per canceled port.
SpeakerThat's a good one.
Speaker 2No questions asked. Right? Um mechanical failures of the ship breaks down, we get a full refund.
SpeakerThat kind of happened to us, didn't it? At that time. Yeah, we missed a port when we were in the Caribbean. The remember the ship had to go a lot slower because something wasn't working right, and we missed a port. Um, and yeah, how much do they owe us for that? What do you have?
Speaker 2Yeah, no, it's a full refund, all of it. Oh, okay. Including the air for fare that we booked to get to the ship.
SpeakerOh, okay.
Speaker 2Yeah, that's in this. That's in that's in this version of our the passenger version of the contract. This is our version for them, right? Yes. And I love this note that we're not interested in any philosophical discussions about acts of God when the propeller falls off.
Speaker 1Yes, of the storm, the tornado. Yeah, the propeller falls off.
Speaker 2It's an act of God. That's not no, we're not gonna have that. The buffet, it's included and it will be good. Not technically edible. It actually has to be good. If the shrimp is gray, that's a breach of contract. I think that's a pretty good line.
SpeakerIt is, and how about we add for breakfast in the morning? You cannot put out all the leftover stuff from dinner last night and say, Oh, look, we made hash brows out of these potatoes and here they are for breakfast.
Speaker 2Exactly. Exactly. And I like this one too. This one I definitely would like to hold them to because how many brochures and how much website stuff have you browse when you go shopping for a cruise? A lot, right? Well, you're so experienced, but all the people out there not out on a cruise, you know they're all over the web looking at these things. Oh, yeah. Looking at photos from other people and yes.
SpeakerI'm just on the cruise ship website looking, but yeah, I know what you mean.
Speaker 2Yeah, right. So the voyage described in the brochure is the voyage we are going on.
SpeakerIt's as simple as that.
Speaker 2It really is. So the brochure is a l is legally binding.
SpeakerAre we are we putting up a petition for people to sign for the passenger contract thing? That's what we should do. Let's see how many signatures we get.
Speaker 2And if you if they if you lose our luggage, whatever it actually costs us in luggage, there's no arguing over what was new and what was old, plus the emotional distress of of wearing the same outfit three days in a row, you gotta cover us. Right? Yes, the safe in the state rooms have to work. And if they don't and someone takes our stuff, it's not not our problem, it's your problem. Right? Because I I'm not bringing my jewelry, you know, just to be careless with it. I'm you know, I'm I'm gonna look nice on formal night. So it's it's on you if you lose my jewelry.
SpeakerThat's true.
Speaker 2Because you know how sensitive I am about jewelry, Cathy.
SpeakerSo I know I are about formal notes, too. I I don't like to do them, I just kind of like it.
Speaker 2Have you ever had to get moved to another stateroom? Like you booked a stateroom of certain class and then you suddenly think, oh sorry, Catherine, you gotta go to that one.
SpeakerNo.
Speaker 2All right. Well, in this contract, it basically says you can't do that stuff. You can't you can't switch us around.
SpeakerUnless they're gonna upgrade us to a suite on the top of the ship.
Speaker 2Yeah.
SpeakerI would be okay with that.
Speaker 2Yeah. And if something goes wrong, we have time. No one year, two years for legal action. That's what the passenger one is recommending.
Speaker 1That's what we recommend. Okay.
Speaker 2Yeah, and the lawsuit happens wherever we live. It's convenience.
unknownYes.
Speaker 2Just like the drink package is convenient for them to make money, the lawsuit venue package. The lawsuit venue package. They could sell that, actually. Would you like your lawsuit you know fixed as as we give it to you, or would you like the upgrade to the $90 your venue lawsuit package? I think I'd go for that. Over the Wi-Fi, knowing that the Wi-Fi is getting sniffed, right?
SpeakerI would. And if we find another state is better than ours, can we move there before we file the lawsuit and then it's in the new state we live?
Speaker 2That's an update. We'll have to put that in the contract.
SpeakerYeah. Just in case you don't want it to be in the state you lived in at the time.
Speaker 2Yeah. Class actions a lot of us have bad experiences, and we absolut we should absolutely band together. You know, that's just called justice and efficiency. Um the cruise line shall have 30 days to respond to any complaint. So we're gonna flip the script on the 30-day thing, right?
SpeakerRight.
Speaker 2Yeah, with real answers, not a form letter. Um shore excursions are your problem too.
SpeakerYes.
unknownRight?
Speaker 2Especially right now, that's not.
SpeakerYeah, especially when they're ship excursions.
Speaker 2Right. Uh medical services, the ship doctor works on the ship. We found them by walking to the medical bay on the ship. So if they do something wrong, it's a ship problem.
SpeakerI agree.
Speaker 2I didn't say boat, drink. Oh, I meant ship. So we're aware about the independent contractor argument, but we are not gonna accept that as passengers. So um you're getting left behind. Have you ever been almost left behind on an excursion?
SpeakerNo.
Speaker 2I have.
SpeakerHave you?
Speaker 2Yes, in Puerto Rico. There's some little fort in Puerto Rico. Do you remember? You know that? Yes. Okay. We were we were at a late nightclub and we were racing back to the boat a little too late. Drank. I think because I said nightclub, I had to say the B word. But anyway, I'm on my third tequila in less than 30 minutes. We're racing back, we're racing back, and we're getting to the fort, and everyone's like, oh, we gotta look, we gotta look, we gotta like look, and I'm like, oh my gosh, we gotta go. Like the boat is going to leave any second. Almost missed it. Literally, we ran, almost missed it. And then even the people on the, you know.
SpeakerHow how late was this, Jeff?
Speaker 2This is pretty late.
SpeakerAh, see what happened to you. We were like leaving in the middle of the nightclub. Okay, this is why I tell you to be in bed by 10 p.m. You can just not have all this extra stress you cause on yourself. A nightclub at port. Okay.
Speaker 2So this is a no-brainer. Our face.
SpeakerOur face?
Speaker 2Our face, our photos, our decision. Oh, yes. We own that. Yes. Right. So the use of our likeness, that's that's us. Facial recognition if you're scanning our faces.
SpeakerOr that we can use Photoshop to make ourselves look better, and then we grant permission to be on the brochure.
Speaker 2Right. You can't use the CCTV footage for anything. You have the internet packages. No, that's private, you know. What else here? Um the code. The staff shall be pleasant.
SpeakerI think the staff shall be pleasant. Most of the staff is pleasant.
Speaker 2Right. I think so too. Um the the wait at guest services has to be less than 45 minutes. I don't know. I I don't recall ever having to be at guest services. I'm getting a nod that I have had to be at guest services.
SpeakerYour wife was at guest services about the spa. Something with the spa, and she got a free dinner.
Speaker 1Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, that might be.
SpeakerAnd we got a free dinner too, because we both, you know, we're at the same table. Yeah, there was something with the spa that day. But but it wasn't 45 minutes. I think she was third in line.
Speaker 2You may you may like this one. The daily activities newsletter left at your door will contain accurate times. None of this approximately 3 p.m. kind of thing.
SpeakerThat actually that actually isn't that left on your pillow with the chocolate, which last cruise they did not put chocolates on the pillow anymore. That can you put that in there? I want chocolates on my pillow at the turndow and service. They got rid of that, and I I that's a big one for me.
Speaker 2All right, we'll have to add that in here.
SpeakerYou can put that back on.
Speaker 2I mean, the there's a chair, chair saving at the pool.
SpeakerOh yeah. No chair.
Speaker 2Line in here. Yeah. Well, no, the cruise line will enforce its own chair saving policy. What do you think the chair saving policy is? Do you know what it is?
SpeakerTheir chair saving policy?
Speaker 2Yeah, what's a general chair? What is the policy around saving a chair?
SpeakerI think that if there's nobody there for like 30 minutes, they'll take your towel and everything away and then somebody else can get it.
Speaker 245 minutes.
Speaker45 minutes.
Speaker 2If a towel has been on a chair unintended for 45 minutes, staff will remove it and free the chair. That's what we're we're demanding. Apparently, I don't know if that happens all the time.
SpeakerWell, I I think they're so busy who can take keep track of how much time someone's been gone off the chair very much. I think that's so probably doesn't. I think it is a rule, but I don't think it's enforced often. They don't have time for that.
Speaker 2The ship's photographer should not take photos of us while we're eating.
SpeakerOh god, yeah.
Speaker 2Does that does that ever happen?
SpeakerYes.
Speaker 2I wouldn't even know.
SpeakerYes, I remember that. It does happen, along with we shouldn't even be asked how your meal is when we're eating either. You know, you have your mouth full and the hell's everything going, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And you're giving the thumbs up because you know your mouth is full of food.
Speaker 2Have you have you had a lot of bad entertainment on cruise ships?
SpeakerSome.
Speaker 2Where like where they've actually said make some noise, you know, like, hey, make some noise, give it up for you know, give it up for Bob Rosen, the comedian, make some noise, you know, and he's not so good and like make some noise.
SpeakerI was gonna say, and he usually is with the comedian.
Speaker 2Apparently this happens a lot because in this contract, there's a lot we we cannot be told to be make noise more than twice in a show. So I guess I guess it happens pretty often that there's a lot of bad bad crap out there. You know, I guess that's why there's so many shows. Uh-oh. We might be running over time. So that's the contract.
SpeakerI like it. When do you want to go to Capitol Hill and present this? We gotta go, and we gotta start the petition. We gotta get people to sign. We gotta fight back.
New Code Of Conduct We Want
Speaker 2I think there's, you know, there's some pretty interesting things in in the uh AI came up with the official passenger code of conduct. And I thought it would come up with something a little bit more funny, but it was actually kind of making things like legit, like the the 45-minute rule for marking a chair. But this is like more conduct talking to passengers, you know, like rising before dawn to claim a prime pool chair for a 10 a.m. arrival is technically allowed under the previous rules. Under this rule, no, it's that's a cry for help.
SpeakerFour hours early. Right. Were you going to a concert or something?
Speaker 2Yeah, exactly. Please sleep in. The chairs will be there, you're on vacation, so chill out. The hot tub has a posted occupancy limit. That limit is not aspirational, it's not a goal, it's the number of people who fit in the hot tub. So we do not squeeze, so pay attention to the hot tub speaker volume. The pool has its own music system. We do not need to hear your phone speaker. And if you're wearing headphones, good. If you're not wearing headphones and music is coming out of the device, you're holding everyone within 15 feet, is now part of your experience without consenting to it. Put the headphones on, the sound quality is better anyway.
SpeakerNow, would you be in trouble for that last coup where you grabbed the microphone and started singing Star Wars when we were all in that lounge? And then I the people were stuck in the bar, they came out and stared at you, and then you ran, you know, but they were like, What's he doing?
Speaker 2God, I wish I knew the lines to that, because I really would have sung that. That that was a perfect. It was.
SpeakerThere were five people there. Perfect.
Speaker 2Yeah. But the lounge decor and everything about it just screamed the Star Wars Bill Murray thing. Um, have you ever been to the buffet and seen somebody not use the tongs?
SpeakerNo.
Speaker 2For real?
SpeakerYes, for real.
Speaker 2I remember I saw someone actually taking, you know how they have sushi. Sometimes they have sushi. It's not really legit sushi because you'd probably be dead if you ate it, if it was real sushi. You know, it's like the fake crab or whatever, but I remember seeing somebody taking the sushi. It could have been a late night buffet, too. I don't think I was dreaming this. Was you know how you can use your shirt as like a container? Lord, no.
SpeakerAnd grabbing it with his hands? Yeah, um, exactly.
Speaker 2Well, because it's, you know, it's sushi, so he's not, he's not thinking, right? Yeah. So that's on the rules here. That's on the that's on my passenger c code of conduct rules. The tongs, the tongs are not, you know, they're not optional. They're there for a reason, right? There's three thousand people on the boat. Can you imagine everybody getting their hands above? Yeah, and if violation is mandatory shame. Yeah, like in Game of Thrones, shame, shame, shame, shame. As you you have to hold the tongs as you walk away. Shame, shame. Um walking the full length of the buffet before committing to a plate is encouraged.
SpeakerOh, I do that. Oh, good. I want to see. It's a smart, it's a smart strategy. Yes.
Speaker 2Yeah. What is not encouraged is standing stationary in the serving line. Because you're see what you're doing is smart because you're you're not bottlenecking everything.
SpeakerI'm browsing.
Speaker 2But the guy that was like stuffing his shirt with sushi, he was just parked there. I mean, he knew what he wanted, but he was parked there. I don't know how long he stood there debating about which sushi he was going to grab, but nonetheless. So um, if your party has plates and a clear destination, you may ask someone finishing their meal if they are leaving soon. If they are not leaving soon, you accept this information gracefully and continue looking. You do not stand next to an occupied table and wait in silence like a specter of someone else's vacation ending. Yeah, that's kind of spooky.
SpeakerThat's a good one. It's like the people hanging out in the parking lots that won't move, and you're like, I'm not ready to leave right now, and they're just sitting there like.
Speaker 2I think if someone parked next to me while I'm eating my French fries on a ship, I think I would offer. I'd be like, You want to fry? Yes. Hey, if you if you if you eat them and I eat them, we'll get done faster and you can have this eat faster. You gotta wonder if they have the nerve to say, okay, I'll help you. Uh uh. What did he what what happened? I have no idea. Oh, now we're nine over. Uh-oh, we're running over.
SpeakerThat's alright. It's a it's a fun show.
unknownIt's fun.
Speaker 2All right. Well, I could go I could I could go on and on and on. But you know what would be really funny? I think this would be a really funny idea. I think we take like this is this is I think AI did a good job coming up with some funny stuff. I think we could do a lot better. And that's the beauty about AI, right? It just augment your human brain a little bit, right? So I think we can come up with something funny. I think we come up with something that we actually can deliver to people so that when you go on your cruise and they take, you know, you go, you know how you have to go through the line and they go you you go through all these stations before you even get into your room.
Speaker 1Yes.
Speaker 2Well, there's someone that checks your documents, right? I think that's what I would do is hand over my documents to the people at the dock. Right, and just say here.
SpeakerThe one that says, here's your cruise card, and here's my passenger contract.
Speaker 2Yeah, right. If you're see put put yourself in their shoes. If you're in their shoes, right, you're just doing this over and over and you're dealing with all these people with vacation head, right? It must be pretty entertaining, but after a while it gets kind of dull, right? See, somebody that throws a curveball like that would be funny because you know they're gonna go home and be like, honey, you're never gonna guess. Look, I got a contract from a passenger. He wanted me to forward this to the CEO. It's not a bad idea, actually. I think I will do that.
SpeakerAll right.
Speaker 2Yeah.
SpeakerOkay, I hope I'm on that same cruise.
Speaker 2But then again, I do run the risk because my behavior kicking me off is subjective. I could be flagged.
SpeakerYou could be.
Speaker 2Right, as a trouble source, right? And then now the CCT cameras has got me marked wherever I go. That's true. And my likeness is used everywhere. So when they do the brochure of what's a troublemaker, my face is all over it.
SpeakerThat's probably what's gonna happen.
Speaker 2Yeah, that's a risky thing. I just talked myself out of that thanks to their contract. Now I'm scared.
SpeakerIt's a good move.
Speaker 2Well, so what's the next show? What do we do in the next round?
Next Mystery And Closing Thoughts
SpeakerThe next show is we're gonna be doing one story uh like we did with Anna Keppner. Yeah. This one, I love this story. It's uh George Alan Smith, who's he's disappeared uh on a Mediterranean cruise on his honeymoon, and it's still an unsolved mystery. So it's very intriguing, has so many parts to the story.
Speaker 2There's a new uh a new event that occurred if somebody got hurt.
SpeakerThere's several this week. There's three.
Speaker 2It's crazy.
SpeakerIt it's really ramping up this year compared to the past. It's really ramping up. We're never gonna run out of material.
Speaker 2No. No, we're not.
SpeakerNo.
Speaker 2I'm sure I I know there are people out there that are just like, sweet, because we're getting feedback. Because you're like noticeably disappointed that the the some of the stories where people actually survived are not like not very popular.
SpeakerWell, Dave, you know, gives us you know our our uh episodes with the most downloads, and I think our episode two is pretty low, and that is an episode where someone actually went overboard and survived. I like that one because we have a survivor.
Speaker 1Yeah.
SpeakerSo anyway, if you haven't listened to episode two, I would circle back.
Speaker 2Yeah, and if you're on a ship, not a boat, circling back means it's gonna take a while because it's a big thing to turn around. What is you gotta go up to shot a tequila? It's gonna go up a mile past you and then turn.
SpeakerThat's true.
Speaker 2Right.
SpeakerSo I think we've had four tequila shots tonight, Jeff.
Speaker 2Yep. One of these days I'm just gonna say the B word like really fast at the very end.
SpeakerThat way everyone's like, whoa, whoa!
Speaker 2All right, hey, thanks, Kath. That was a good show. That was fun.
SpeakerAll right, so till next time, anchors away.
Speaker 1Anchors Away.
Subscribe Rate Review Outro
Speaker 2That's it for this episode of Cruise Ship Killer. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe, rate, and review, or don't. But statistically, the people who disappeared never do either. CSK is hosted by Kathy Pierce and Jeff Smith, produced by Kristen Smith and David Pierce. Research by our Cruise Line Incident Researcher page log line. Additional editing and sound design by Cal Deckhand. Sources for today's episode are linked in the show notes because shockingly, we did not make all of this up.
SpeakerThis is a Kitty's Pub production.
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